0Freie Generation Reporter:innen: Congratulations on your debut feature film. How does it feel?
Jub Clerc: *jokes* It’s no big deal! But in all honesty – Berlinale is like the Mecca for filmmakers, you just want to get here. There are a couple of festivals around the world, that everyone wants to get their film to. So when we heard we got into Berlinale it was the best news and we are so happy to be here. And the audiences are incredible. I never imagined that it would translate so well over here. But something is happening, and everybody is loving it.
FGR: That’s amazing. Do you have a favorite moment or interaction so far?
JC: Today we had quite a young audience member in one of the screenings. It was the first question and it was packed and he said: why isn't there any popcorn here? That made my day. I also really loved the intelligent and deeply profound questions from these young adults in the audience that I never expected from that age group. They are layered questions regarding the film that not even adults have asked yet. As a writer you don’t waste words in a script. Everything should always relate to the story. So to see them asking questions on little tiny moments in the film that aren't even driven by the protagonist - that they just want to know and get it right and understand. That has been so much fun.
FGR: Sweet As is based on your own story. How much of it was inspired by the trip you went on as a teenager?
JC: I was 14 and it was quite extraordinary because I was living in a small mining town and life at that moment was a bit complicated, a bit rough. Then suddenly, I get a knock on the door to go on a photo safari with National Geographic. I was a bit nervous because I didn’t even understand what National Geographic really was. But I just went because it sounded like something to do. We went on this incredible tour all through the Pilbara, but also all the way down to the Southwest of Western Australia. In one drive it’d be 28 hours and that’s just half of the state.
When I came back around to doing the film, I did a bit of research on the trip and found out that it was actually for at-risk kids. I’d had no idea. And it was quite a profound and shocking moment that started to make me think about what being at risk means. Half the time you don’t know you’re at risk – that’s why you’re at risk. You don’t see the cracks in front of you or you don’t realize you’re in the cracks trying to get out. Realizing that made me love the trip even more. It changed my life.
I didn’t know anything about what the other kids were there for. It wasn’t a counseling trip. They gave us cameras and that’s all I knew about it.
It was beautiful to tell the story inspired by this trip, but I drew on my own experience as much as my cousins’, my sisters’, my brothers’, my aunties’, my uncles’, the Indigenous people of Australia. All our lived experiences as a community, our generational trauma, our disparities, all into this journey through this young protagonist’s eyes and everyone around her.
FGR: You say Murra is a fusion of all those experiences. How much of yourself do you see in her?
JC: Something that I saw in Murra that I see in all of us is her yearning to be seen and heard. When you feel like your voice is taken away from you and you don’t matter. I grew up with my grandparents. My mom was extraordinary – a lot different than the mom in the film. Much harder drugs are involved in the communities these days and even though things are changing, there still seems to be a big gap in the socioeconomic world for my people.
I was also a lot more innocent. It was the Eighties; we didn’t have social media. We didn’t have access to all the things that saturate your ideas now. A 14-year-old was a 14-year-old turning 15, not 28. So I see a lot of myself in her, but also a lot of my nieces.
FGR: How hard was it for you to find an actress to portray all of that?
JC: Shantae found us. One thing I could say with young indigenous women is that we all share our experience of being a colonized country and being First Nations people in a colonized country. So I knew always knew I would find an indigenous actress who can tap into that. And then there was Shantae and brought 50,000 things on top of that. She brought this amazing ability to evoke emotions in silence. When I saw her I was so relieved because I wrote that character into every scene of the film. And she delivered. She was such a joy to work with, as were the rest of the cast and my crew.
It was interesting because it was during Covid and I didn’t get to meet any of them until the shoot because all the meetings were online. But you could still sense it from all of the actors, that there was something they understood a little bit differently. I could feel it from them through the screen, which was very good because we had to translate it through a screen. So I might do all of my auditions like that now. * laughs*
FGR: How big was the whole crew?
JC: It was a very small crew, which was important for where we needed to go. Even accommodation in town was really hard. We couldn’t even get a room for four half the time, let alone for the 20 or 30 people we were. We ended up staying in these single men’s quarters at the mining complex which, funnily enough, had spectacular catering. And everyone know that’s the most important thing on set.
FGR: Earlier you talked about the process of growing up as an indigenous teenager and how this process changed. Could you elaborate on that a bit?
JC: I think what’s different now is that indigenous teens have access that does not isolate them. They can see that they’re not a lone voice and that they have this kind of power behind them. It’s a complicated question, because in my generation, my mom and especially my grandparents were terrified of the stolen generation. With the color of my skin I would have been the first baby taken away with part of the stolen generation. And you know, we still have a lot of young indigenous children being taken away from their parents. Today it’s almost larger, but it’s done in a different context with much more paperwork.
But our young adults definitely have a feeling of solidarity. Before, it was just our voices in our little area. But because the country is so big and so isolated from the rest of the world and there are 457+ tribes, it’s like this huge movement now. For example, to change Australia Day into Survival Day because First Nations people can’t celebrate the day that Australia was founded – it was genocide for us. There are all these movements now – LGBTQIA+, First Nations, Black Lives Matter, Me Too – all this big change dismantling the patriarchy. And there’s fatigue with that as well, people wondering how can this all change? I think there’s always going to be steps forwards and steps back – hopefully more steps forward than back. Some people will always try to keep the way it was because it was easier for them.
Another difference is that First Nations people are able to be key creators now. Able to be writers, directors, producers, telling our stories and not having a non-indigenous man or woman telling a vanilla version of our lived experience. Before, our kids only had other people of color as representations on television – now they see their people. There’s more of us behind and in front of the screen. It was the first time I was on a set where two indigenous actors had more experience than the two non-indigenous characters. And it was beautiful to see Shantae and Pedrea teach Mikayla and Andrew about everything on set.
JC: It was more about finding out. Shantae was really worried about playing me, but I told her you’re not playing me – you’re playing Murra. This is your script now and you take from it what you need. Make her whatever you need her to be.
I believe that we had enough context in the script and talked enough about the character and the scenes that that’s all that needed to be discussed. Our kids understand about our generational trauma, they hear it from their parents. If anything, it was for our non-indigenous cast and it was lovely sharing that journey with them. They’re slowly starting to teach it in schools, but they never taught Australian colonization, only every other world history.
There are a lot of subliminal messages in the film that not everyone will understand. Like with Mitch going up to the car and meeting Uncle Jimmy saying she’s from over East, but her mom is still trying to find their mob – she’s stolen generation. She never says it, but Uncle Jimmy understands and says he recognizes her face, that she belongs to this country. A lot of my indigenous friends are looking for their mob because they have been stolen. And we can help each other by recognizing each other’s faces and saying “you’re in the wrong area, you should be looking over here”. It’s a very short line in the film, but I knew that it would resonate with all the First Nations people watching it. There are so many little moments splattered throughout the film that talk to people. Even with Kylie, who only knows love from her body and not from emotion. She’s still navigating that at the end.
Nobody walks out of that journey fixed completely, not even Murra. I hope everyone understands that even though she is visiting her mom at the end, she actually lives with uncle Ian and that’s very important.
FGR: You say there are many moments that are not necessarily visible if you don’t have the background, or if you’re from Berlin for example – could you give us a few more examples?
JC: For example when Murra is running away and Elvis calls out “yo, yo” which means “look out” when something is bad. And then he goes “Min Min Light will get you”. And she looks up into the sky. For us, Min Min light is an entity that will come down on you and take you away. It has been part of our dream time songs for ages. So when we showed the film at home, all the indigenous people in the audience lost their minds laughing, because this is how we scare each other at night.
And there’s Mitch teaching Kylie how to drive. Most people would think “oh how lovely, she’s teaching her to drive”. But I tell you, there will always be a woman in the audience who knows exactly why she’s teaching her. A lot of women can’t get out of domestic violence situations because they don’t know how, they don’t have the money, they’ve never learned to drive. So I wrote this scene particularly for her and Mitch. Mitch says to Murra: “Her I can read, you not so much”. It’s because Mitch has lived that life.
FGR: Would you say it’s more common for non-indigenous people to be as respectful as Sean and Kylie were or does that not happen often? Is Australia going forward in the regard?
JC: I’m really lucky because we are in the Arts and within the Arts you do come across people that are more decent because there’s this openness to the world and an acceptance of differences. I have incredible non-indigenous friends. But it is hard for me to say because then you have the full gamut of people that are still crazy haters. And I think Sean and Kylie are this respectful because of where we placed the scene in the film. If it had been before the swimming pool and getting to know each other, there’s no way they would have been this respectful.
FGR: I was wondering about that scene. Is there more to the way indigenous people greet nature? And what are the differences between tribes?
JC: There are many differences. In the film you would have seen two different acknowledgements to Country. One with the water in the mouth, one with the rock. There’ll be other mob that’ll call out in language. Elvis is from Freshwater and Mitch and Murra from Saltwater. So Fernando being from Nicaraguan Ocean water was the one who also put water in his mouth and Kylie and Sean went with Elvis. I wanted to show that they were doing things based on where they are geographically from.
Welcome to Country is different. You can’t do a Welcome to Country if you’re not from that specific area. You can do an acknowledgement, but only a traditional owner from that area can do a Welcome to Country and they will do it differently.
When we started shooting, we had traditional owners come to set and do a Welcome to Country so that all of our crew feel safe and are welcome to this area that we’re shooting in. They encouraged crew to talk to Country because to us Country is alive, it’s a sentient being. And I would hear the most beautiful things. When we’d finished a scene I’d hear three or four crew members saying “Thank you, Country” or “Sorry, Country” when they had to move a branch out of the way. This is something instigated by First Nations people, but it can and should be shared with non-indigenous people.
I did an acknowledgement to Country when I came to Berlin. I was in a little park area and said hello to your ancestors here in Berlin. That allows me to sleep better, to feel safer here, to show my respect to the people here.
FGR: That trip was the first time you got in touch with photography and storytelling. Was your community a reason for you to go into filmmaking?
JC: It’s the only reason I got into filmmaking. To give my people a voice. I’m not here for anything else. I’m so passionate about my people and what we can and need to do going forward. We had a screening back home and people were both bawling their eyes out and laughing. And what came up the most from all age groups was “thank you for making a film for us”. They said they saw themselves at that age or who they were before or who they are now. And that was gold.
But I love that the universal story of Murra resonates with everybody as we’ve seen here in Berlin with the audiences.
FGR: You’ve truly done a beautiful job with Sweet As. Congratulations on your premier and thank you so much for your time!
Two days after this interview we saw Jub Clerc again: on the stage at the Generation Kplus award ceremony, holding the Crystal Bear for the best feature film. We are so happy for Jub and can only encourage you to watch Sweet As.
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